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Ошибки в английских названиях снимков
http://forum.prokudin-gorsky.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=156
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Автор:  Filip [ 13 ноя 2013 21:34:44 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

I see, thank you for the corrections.

Sorry, as I have both been misinformed earlier and also went too creative (with sloboda and aul).

I agree with the Zavod names, it is for the best.
__________________________________
What about the two springs in Borzhom?
-Catherine/Yekaterina spring, Spring of Catherine/Yekaterina or Yekaterininsky spring
-Eugene/Yevgeniy spring, Spring of Eugene/Yevgeniy or Yevgenievsky spring
__________________________________
Just checked the website, well I probably know why I was puzzled about Gunib:
‘Shamil's Gates’ [Verkhny Gunib. Dagestan]
‘Birch grove in upper Gunib, where Shamil surrendered’
‘Dagestan. Ruins of Shamil's village (upper Gunib)’

And even
верхний Гуниб
Нижний Гуниб
How to procceed in this case?

Автор:  Vyacheslav [ 14 ноя 2013 04:53:45 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

Filip писал(а):
Just checked the website, well I probably know why I was puzzled about Gunib:
‘Shamil's Gates’ [Verkhny Gunib. Dagestan]
‘Birch grove in upper Gunib, where Shamil surrendered’
‘Dagestan. Ruins of Shamil's village (upper Gunib)’

And even
верхний Гуниб
Нижний Гуниб
How to procceed in this case?


Филип, я сейчас везде исправил на "Verkhny Gunib", но оригинальные русские названия Прокудина-Горского ("нижний Гуниб") оставил без изменений, поскольку такая оригинальная стилистика написания не влияет на восприятие русскоязычным читателем. Иначе везде бы пришлось использовать заглавные буквы: Вытегорский Погост, Каменский Завод.

Кстати, сейчас посмотрел, в современном английском широко распространён вариант "Kizhi Pogost": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizhi_Pogost
Иногда пишут "Kizhsky pogost (Kizhi Enclosure)", "Kizhzky Pogost". Но слово "погост" при этом идёт без перевода, как часть названия.

Автор:  Filip [ 18 ноя 2013 19:15:39 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

I saw your excelent restoration of the monastery garden photo, and I believe it grammatically should be:
"In the monastery garden"

Looking at New Athos, is there some rule we should stick to when transliterating "ый"? I have seen almost everything from "y" to "ii" to "iy" or "yi".

Автор:  Vyacheslav [ 18 ноя 2013 19:39:10 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

Filip писал(а):
I saw your excelent restoration of the monastery garden photo, and I believe it grammatically should be:
"In the monastery garden"

Looking at New Athos, is there some rule we should stick to when transliterating "ый"? I have seen almost everything from "y" to "ii" to "iy" or "yi".


Thank you Filip! "In the monastery's garden" is really strange, but I has taken it from the site of LoC. OK, I will correct it.
Usually my policy was to preserve original captions from LoC site, including this "ii" instead normative "y". But I really don't like this "ii".

Автор:  Filip [ 18 ноя 2013 21:16:54 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

Thank you for clarification Vyacheslav!

One small bit I noticed is that everywhere in English version is "Gagra". If we respect the pre-revolutionary names (Russified Caucasian names like Borzhom) of the locations, it should probably be Gagry, which also correspondents with P-G.

Here is one atlas from Edinburgh, 1882 with the said name
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... s_1882.jpg

Автор:  Vyacheslav [ 19 ноя 2013 12:49:03 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

Filip писал(а):
Thank you for clarification Vyacheslav!

One small bit I noticed is that everywhere in English version is "Gagra". If we respect the pre-revolutionary names (Russified Caucasian names like Borzhom) of the locations, it should probably be Gagry, which also correspondents with P-G.

Here is one atlas from Edinburgh, 1882 with the said name
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... s_1882.jpg


You are right, Filip! Gagry is more correct, especially from the point of uniformity, when LoC uses old Russian form "Borzhom", not modern "Borjomi".

I have just found another interesting case, caption "Камень Шайтан; боец" was translated by LoC as "Shaitan Rock, the fighter". But I think that Russian word "боец" here has special meaning (dangerous jut of rock) and may not be translated in the way. Probably it is better to give it without translation: "Shaitan Rock, the boets". What do you think, Filip?

Автор:  Filip [ 19 ноя 2013 16:18:14 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

I wholeheartly agree! The meaning "fighter" is so literary here that it would not make any sense.

English Wiki page about Chusovaya river also agrees to this:
"Some rocks posed much danger to boats, especially during the spring thaw. They are generally called boitsy (бойцы, lit. fighters); many of them have individual names and are protected by the state as natural monuments."

Автор:  Filip [ 11 янв 2014 19:32:42 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

In meantime of very busy school work (and preparation for university), I sadly haven't had much time for spotting new things to discuss, but at least two:

-In what sense is "vremennaya" the inn in Gagry? If it was for example used only in summer, wouldn't "seasonal" be more usable?

-How to crack in English the linguistic nut of Orta Melle mosque of Artvin?

Автор:  Vyacheslav [ 16 янв 2014 08:06:23 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

Filip писал(а):
In meantime of very busy school work (and preparation for university), I sadly haven't had much time for spotting new things to discuss, but at least two:

-In what sense is "vremennaya" the inn in Gagry? If it was for example used only in summer, wouldn't "seasonal" be more usable?

-How to crack in English the linguistic nut of Orta Melle mosque of Artvin?


Hi, Filip!

I did not find any explanation, why first hotel in Gagry was called "Vremennaya" (Temporary). May be, because it was planned to build more suitable hotel and use first building for another purposes. But, as I understood, "Vremennaya" was initially official name of Hotel, before it was renamed to "Gagripsh".

Цитата:
Пять месяцев стучали топоры, визжали пилы. И вот на склоне горы Сигналка поднялось во всей красе трехэтажное здание под черепичной крышей, с мансардами и рестораном с большими часами на фронтоне. Старая Гагра наполнилась мелодичным звоном швейцарских курантов первой гостиницы. Ее назвали «Временной», а затем, по специальному распоряжению принца, переименовали в «Гагрипш» – по имени местности, где выросла Гагра.

Источник: http://gazeta-ra.info/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=5436

There is very interesting article about this remarkable building in Wiki: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0% ... 0%D0%BD%29

Автор:  Filip [ 29 июн 2014 12:18:31 ]
Заголовок сообщения:  Re: Ошибки в английских названиях снимков

Gentlemen, I have finally enough spare time to once again resume finding imperfections, a task quite difficult on the impeccable site!

First of all, I am not sure whether it is an oversight, or my still lacking knowledge of Russian language:
http://prokudin-gorsky.org/card.php?lan ... tos_id=710
I am aware of the confusion that still exists regarding e and ë in English transliterations (Gorbachev), but as far as I can see, all other black rivers, such as the one in Borzhom are trasliterated as Chernaya

Regarding what I will mention next, I found this discrepancy: Крест с изображением Священномуч. Игнатия. Cross with the likeness of the Holy Martyr Ipatii.
_______________________
In order to makes the site more accesible to non-slavic viewers (now in retrospective I see how some of former suggestions were quite foolish), I have outlined some suggestions:

The names of Saints, monks, etc. are in all sources translated when possible, in the English sources usually to Latin or latinized Greek original.
-Makarii -> Macarius, both metropolitans of Moscow and Kolomna (Nevsky and Bulgakov) are known under this name, as are the number of saints and Macarius the Miracle worker
-Ksenofont -> Xenophon
-Venerable Isaak - Isaac is more common but not exclusive. This painting is a typical example where the planned information tab will serve well (translating the text below about being first archimandrate)
-Taisiia - > Thaïs or Thais
-Venerable Dalmat - for the reasons of being rather rare name (except for this Dalmat of Iset also two bishops) and for the obvious naming of Dalmatovo after him, this could stay, alternative would be Dalmatius (after the early Christian saints)
-Iona - > Jonah or Jonas
-Irinarch - > Irenarch or Irenarchus
-Ipatii/Ipatiev Monastery - > Hypatius/Hypatian
-Ignatii - > Ignatius
-Iov - > Job
-Saintly Evfrosiniia - > Venerable (?) Euphrosyne
-Iuliania - > Juliana
-Venerable Kirill - > Cyril
-Varsanofiia - > Varsonophia
-Dimitry of Rostov (prefered to Rostovskii in English sources) is hard to judge, being quite well known, Demetrius is optional.
-Sergei Radonezhsky - > Sergius of Radonezh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergius_of_Radonezh)
-Spaso-Yakovlevsky Monastery - > Monastery of St. Jacob Saviour (says Wikipedia, perhaps slightly awkward, but used nevertheless)
-Odigitriia - > Hodegetria
-St. Savvatiy - > Venerable Sabbatius of Solovki
-Dimitrii Solunskii - > Demetrius of Thessaloniki
-Vasilii the Great - > Basil the Great (or Basil of Caesarea)
-Nikolas Pensky - > Nicholas Pensky or Nicholas on the Stumps
-Nil Stolbenskii - > Nilus of Stolobny Island
-Kliment -> Clement
-Zosima (possible alternative is Zosimus -Зосима Брадатый is named as such)
-Piatnitskaia church - > St. Parascheva church (there is also a missing "s" in Assumption monastery)

That is all for now, but more should be coming soon (especially regarding the adjective names).

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